Fishing forum > silver spring on the vedder

Author Topic: silver spring on the vedder
FishFreak


caught this spring tonight at the vedder weighed in at almost 18 Pounds
olie'

sweet
blaydRnr ll

nice fish. i was there at first lite and caught 2 springs (1 jack and 1 just over 67 cm ), but not as nice as yours..... i hooked onto 5 springs in total.... i think you actually caught one of my fish that got away... just kidddinggg....
FishFreak

Hey are you Erniel's brother ?? i couldnt remember your member name on here lol
el-nino2010

hey fishfreak....your on a roll dude. i was there today after work on the keith wilson side. bottomm bounced with no luck. where abouts were you fishin?....bridge..hatchery?.
bug pumper

Bottom BOUNCED!!! Are you joking!
Steelheader

awwwwww not this again
blaydRnr ll

yep
gooey

Ya you guys are right, it is a joke that people think its acceptable to floss on the vedder. How desparate are people to kill a fish?

There was a comment made (by a fisher who seems to know his stuff...DK) that only people hooking up were long floating....maybe fish freak can confirm the length of his leader, use of float or not, where the fish was hooked (fast water or pool), flossed or bit, etc.

Its great that FF posted the pic and all but I wont head up there if the fish arent BITING and he really didnt expand on that.

I lost a lot of gear in my favorite hole last week, eventually we pulled 2 BBetties with 12 foot leaders out the river...its the perfect example why you fricking beaks shouldnt be bouncing/flossing the vedder. I have seen BB ruin many a run be litering the bottom with their gear.
FishFreak

OK..... Put some Minds to rest hopefully

That fish you see me with was caught in the upper river not saying where casue its always a zoo there and I have to leave VERY VERY early to claim a spot. Anyway.....

That fish was hooked in the MOUTH as for a set up I was not flossing.. I was useing a Foam Float 1 Ounce BB with a 3 way swivel with about a 12-18 inch leader on a 2/0 Gammy Hook with black and orange wool so yes the float went down and the fisht was on NO FLOSSING

No Need to Floss There cause they do bite.....
el-nino2010

c'mon gooey! its gettin very tiresome hearing you rant and rave about BB'S. I bottom bounce once every 12 times i go fishing so its not like its my main technique. Even DFO officers Bottom bounce when they fish next to us( to catch people snagging fish on the body). i feel sorry you lose so much tackle to other peoples line. i float fish most of the time cause its more fun but BB's are not illegal and you are not the vedder police but maybe you should apply one day if that position ever comes up. i understand your fustration but lets not condone something that is not illegal. Only public forums sponsored by DFO can make bottom bouncing an issue for discussion and from there implement changes to the fisheries regulations. Good luck in your quest.
olie'

why cant people just chill out. i mean just be respectfull and say "nice fish" and move on. instead gooey, you write an essay on bottom bouncing and its a tired subject man.
r e l a x
gooey

I believe there are very few people on the vedder who bottom bounce it properly ie not trying to floss fish, hence a vast majority of the "bottom bouncers" are technically snaggers. I think flossing is becoming an accepted way to hook fish when A) your not skilled enough to hook them fair or B) they are off the bite. (dont take that comment personally its a valid observation based on obnserving many individuals on the river over several years).

Killing a flossed fish is illegal not to mention all the sockeye that are smacked into along the way...on the vedder thats outta line.

The fraser is a total different story, different river and different stock of fish.

I may not change any of your minds...but if I make an impression on 1 individual, I'll take it!
gooey

By the way gang...I was out on the fraser today and my dad and I cleaned house...2 springs (12-14lb and 30lbs) and 4 socs. I am bagged so I think I will post pics tomorrow.

On the way our a guy asked: " BB green wool I bet...those fish love green". People think that these flossed fish actually bite...they even think color of wool matters...its these guys and "others" that total muck up a river like the vedder or chehalis by bottom bouncing it.
bug pumper

gooey, killing a flossed fish is not illegal. You got carried away with that bit. It may be unsporting and unskillfull, but thats all.
gooey

A snagged fish is a fish that is hooked but did not bite/take the presentation.

We all know that a flossed fish DID NOT BITE...hence a flossed fish is a snagged fish.

BP you know that old fishing buddy of my (A.L). Did you know he was ticketed at the tamahi for keeping a flossed coho?!? The CO took the fish and left him with a $150 fine. The fish was hooked on an 18 inch leader in the fast water and as is typical in all flossed fish...it was hooked in the scissirs, outside in.

Why did he get a ticket if its LEGAL to kill a flossed fish??

el-nino2010

any fish hooked ooutside of the mouth region is falsely hooked and must be released....regardless of fishing method.
olie'

My question is this: How did the CO know that this particular fish was flossed and not caught normaly?
Sounds fishy.
How could he tell by looking at the fish that it was flossed???
gooey

In the scenario I referranced, the CO was undercover. He was fishing...dressed in waders, a vest, etc. He was right next to my buddy and watched him land and bonk his fish and then slammed him with a ticket.

El-nino from your reply I can tell you know that a flossed fish should be released...then why floss a run...even once every 12 trips. You know its wrong and do it anyways???

What scares me is that a lot of people flossing the vedder and chehalis dont even know its wrong and what angers me is the rest who do know, dont care!

The fraser is a special scenario which cant be compared to other rivers but is set a dangerous standard for all the other rivers too.
bug pumper

Thats very fishy. To say that its ok on the fraser but its illegal on the Vedder...sorry no. That CO made a personal decision. To prove that it didn't bite would be hard regardless of entry point.
gooey

BP...I cant believe it...you sell out .

Plain and simple: a flossed fish is illegal to kill, its simply a matter when/where the CO chooses to enforce the rules.

I will go back to my highway speeding analogy...I havent had many ticketys for speeding laterly but the last one came around the Gaglardi exit... I have never been given a ticket past the port man.

The speed limit is 100km all along the #1. Just because I see little enforcement and I personally have never been given a ticket in the valley, that doesnt mean the speed limit is different there...once again its a matter of enforcement!
winter steel

Gooey, I do not think it can be considered a "special scenario" in terms of flossing on the Fraser. Allowing it on the Fraser only encourages it on other rivers as many people fish in order to be able to take home something for the table/freezer. If it works for them on the Fraser, they will use it elsewhere. Are you telling me that you have never attempted to floss a fish on a river other than the Fraser? Those springs you kept, did they take a spin n glo or did you get them bottom bouncing? Were they flossed? What I find interesting is that we have so many "skilled" fishermen out there, yet not one of you has managed to come up with a means of getting sockeye to take your offering consistently. I have heard of flyfishermen doing well when the water has 18-24 inches of visibility and the odd chap drifting krill on the Harrison, so there are methods that could potentially work on the Fraser, but it is much easier just to floss right? Chinook on the Fraser can be taken bar fishing with spin and glos, however, yet ever year more and more people are bouncing the bottom because it is easier and more successful for majority of the fishermen out there. My point being, is you can't have your cake and eat it too! Gooey, if it is an illegal act to keep a flossed fish it should be so on all streams, not just the ones where fish bite! Bug pumper, if you have fished for any extended period of time I think your intelligent enough to know when a fish has "snapped" at your offering and when it has been improperly (and most likely, intentially)hooked/"flossed". Point is if it is not evident that the hook is inside the mouth, be a sport and realease the fish. You are probably a good enough fishermen to get one to eventually take an offering anyway. Tight lines!
bug pumper

Ok Gooey pal. You say that "flossing is illegal, plain and simple". Yet you do it all the time????? Whats got me on your tail is that this is a double standard. You can't complain that its illegal if you then say its ok on the Fraser!!! Springs also bite on the Fraser so... why floss? Hell, I started this rant but I don't think its illegal. Mainly because there is some truth that bouncing with short leader does produce fish that bite.. sometimes. Your speeding analogy actually works in my favour- if its illegal, its illegal everywhere. (when did you ever speed feather foot?) LOL
Steelheader

when will this end???
Beak007

That fish is pretty dark, should have let it free to spawn. I see you got your report and pic posted on www.fishingwithrod.com too, should just stick that kind of fish around there only... And flossing in the Vedder? Do you feel proud?
Balloons

Thanks Winter Steel, you just hit the nail on the head!!!
The Fishin Pig

Flossimg
Could a buzz bomb be called flossing? What about tossing a spinner up stream,? It sinks and bounces off bottom before you catch up to it? Man this flossing issue could really go deeper than once thought....lol.Man if they are all at this point...Legal...Whats the Drift?. Fish sometimes miss the Bite too...
winter steel

The issue is not about missing a bite/strike or defining what constitutes as a flossing method and what doesn't. Its about keeping a fish that is foul hooked and majority of those fish on the Fraser are just that. Bottom bouncing promotes it and it spillis onto other systems. I realize the Fraser is deemed a "meat fishery", however many anglers kill their fair share on other rivers. Does that make that particular river a "meat fishery" and thus allow foul hooked fish to be kept? Remember fishing is a sport and half the fun is presenting an offering in anticipation of a strike while realeasing those fish that did not strike or are foul hooked. By the way for those interested in a fishing report the Chehalis is dead low, even in the back woods and canyon.
Louis Vuitton

Any fish that is hook outside the mouth was not fairly caught. It doesn't matter how long of a leader you have on. If it isn't hook on the inside, it is technicaly a snagged fish. Now what feels better, killing a fish that you couldn't get to bite, or keeping one that you could fool into taking your presntaion that you worked hard to control through the run?
It all comes down to an issue of ethicy.
I dont't condone killing anyfish that is not hooked in the mouth, but every body has to make their own choices.
But there is no argument: If its not hooked in the mouth, its snagged.
geoff

i start to like those discussions!

it is difficult to sympathize to the people, who claim to be ethical and the very next moment abuse other people (violating the forum policy), not to mention double standards (fraser vs. vedder).

official regulations are simple and sufficient.

tight lines everyone!
gooey

Ah thats where you are wrong...the regs are not simple and strait forward enough. I read the phrasing a day or two ago and it said any fish not hooked in the mouth needs to be thrown back.

A good floss job will bury the hook right inth the corner of the mouth right thru the max...is the "in the mouth" ...does it matter that its outside in as opposed to inside out?!?!?

The regs are not clear enough at all....thats why flossing is a grey are. Yes the fish is hooked in the mouth but not in the sense that its INSIDE the mouth or that the fish took the presentation!

And because I floss the fraser and bitch about people flossing the vedder doesnt make me hypocritical. Its 2 different rivers and 2 different resources.
dusty

hey i have a question about this bottom bouncing thing i hurd that if you "snagg" a sockeye in the fraser around the mouth area like the nose or under the mouth that it's not illegal is that true?
winter steel

Gooey, how is flossing on one river different than on another? Is "sportfishing" different, pending the stream you are on? Com on now, your just trying to justify flossing on the Fraser as a means to attain fish. It really is an issue that is up to the individual, regardless of what body of water you are fishing. You see flossing on all systems (actually not on lakes, impossible, thank god) by various types of fishermen, of various degree of skill, it is not an ethnic thing, ethical thing or what ever have you, it is what the individual fisherman can put up with. If you can live with it on the Fraser, you have to live with it on other systems where it occurs (it is a shame though) Tight lines!
bug pumper

Winter Steel, you're so wiiiise. I agree about Gooey, double standard.
bug pumper

No Dusty, you should let them go. You'll get one in the mouth soon enough.
FishFreak

You know what ??? why dont we stop talking about this flossing thing It isnt illegal to floss, so why bitch piss and moan about it, who gives a shit about it worry about yourself then worry about the other people who are doing something illegal.
Just cause some of you dont like it doesnt mean everyone has to , give it up keep your comments to your self and another thing your not DFO so back off if the fish isnt hooked in the mouth do too flossing and for any reason it has to be released if the person keeps a foul hooked fish then bitch and cry about it, all I did was to show my fish I caught (THAT BIT) and all this shit starts, FLOSSING ISNT ILLEGAL SO LEAVE IT ALONE or its because some of you are jelous and cant catch fish who knows, worry about the wrong things people do not the legal thing they do.
You can all piss and moan about what I have to say I dont care what comments any of you have to say from this I DONT CARE SO HAVE FUN WITH THIS ONE
dusty

ok good so far i have goten my socks in the mouth
bug pumper

Well FF.. you're right. That fish wasn't even dark, what was that about? You had the fish for hours before the picture was taken. Anyway enjoy fishing! BP
gooey

FF seems like your doing more ranting and raving than anyone else...its obvious that some people will do just about anything to get their fish so why cant you just accept your own personal actions and stand accoutable for them!

FishFreak

Your an IDIOT

Why dont you go to one of the fraser bars in front of 80 people and tell there stupid for fishing the way they are and lets see how far you get ......

Also you sure have alot of shit to say on the internet but when it comes to been out there fishing im sure you dont say shit to anyone so why dont you get out of your stupid little internet world and fish and not worry about others loser tuff guy on the KEY BOARD get a lide if ya wanna be such a dink why dont you become a DFO officer then people will listen to you i fish the w3ay i want the right way like tonight i foul hooked a sockeye i let it go as easy as that no big deal its simple say what you like i dont care
gooey

Fish Freak, for some one who doesnt care...you sure seem a little wound up.

And I do let it rip on the river. I was in the ranger and this asian guy with a mustache was there (probably you have seen him) I watched him floss 5 socs and casually asked if any springs were hooked he said 5 and he had a nice one on the beach. I asked him why he continued to floss and hit the socs when he couldnt take any more fish that day.

He put a float on after that and I didnt see him hook a soc again that day. And by the way, I fished that run for 20 minutes because it was obvious the only fish being hooked were flossed. If I saw you hook soc after soc on the vedder I speak up then too!

By the way I floss the fraser, I am not against it...just not the other rivers (vedder chehalis, cap, etc.)

gooey

PS FF - whats mum serving for dinner tonight...you dont know the moderator on this site so I guess you cant have my posting yanked again.
alex015

correction, YOU'RE stupid...

you snagged that sockeye because you had a disgustingly long leader... there is a reason why people don't use long leaders.
blaydRnr ll

i know ff... he's a stand up guy that follows all the regs and he's also respectful of the people around him.

its a joke... the way you guys preach, with your forked tongues and your 'double-edged' standards.

if you're so concerned about spawning salmon and the way they're caught... stop fishing for them once they've enterred the freshwater system... because realisticly, that's the reason why they've come.

also, you guys talk about the lack of skills by 'so called' beeks on the river because they like to bb.... so what?... you're saying casting a store bought spinner or spoon...and retrieving it takes more skill?...please.

like before, it comes down to ethics. so if you have a problem with it, take it up with dfo and stop being a bunch of snivelling whiney 'net' vigilantes, who likes to hide behind the screen while trying to pick a fight.
Beak007

Flossing for booty springs in the Vedder, oh ya... great experience.
Beak007

Flossing for booty springs in the Vedder, oh ya... great experience.
alex015

it is being taken up...
alex015

ps you also have a lot of shit to say over the internet ff
Beak007

Maybe the leading bar fishing authority from FWR Duke Myers would like to make a few comments?
bug pumper

Why do you guys think he flossed the spring??? Using a bouncing betty under a float is wierd ya, but doesn't mean flossing.
gooey

Oh come on BP, you said to me that you were sceptical of anyone hooking springs now just on wool...you made that comment to me less than a week ago!

You are right, no one on this board can say for sure how the fish was hooked. But when I hear "upper vedder" ie ranger run, and a BB ie lots of weight done in the rocks, even if its under a float I still think flossed.
bug pumper

Ya Gooey, I got a mama already,stop trying to be mine! You don't need to confirm or deny everyones opinion as if you are THE knowledge. Yeesh!! Now about what I said last week, sure he used wool but that doesn't give anyone the right to accuse him. You're just trying to vent built up tension cuz of all the SCREAMING in your home. I understand. heh, heh.
FishFreak

The reason i used a betty was becasue i didnt have enough weight to go through the current its all the same betty and coil lead its all made of the same stuff just ones is round and the other is straight, also that spring when the float went down i set the hook and it was on i think i allready said this so gooey why come on here and make everyone miserable, its like you dont even fish you just sit on the computer and wait for someone to post something so you can be the first one to talk shit about it,
gooey

FF...Buddy, I was giving you the benefite of the doubt there, I said no one on this board knows for sure! Read my post...you'll see it there. And yes, with 2 young children in my family, I cant fish nearly as much as I would like, one trip a week if I am lucky!

BTW your float will go down regardless of wether the fish was flossed, took it, or hooked in the ass!

FishFreak

hey if the fish wants it in the ass then thats its problem bottom bounceing in my books is without useing a float not useing one and if the fish is foul hooked out side the mouth area i throw it back ok
bug pumper

Gooey, I was wondering where you were!
gooey

I was curious FF, I have fished almost all the local rivers, the thompson, the stamp...I have seen many different rivers at many different times of the year.

All I can tell you is regardless of the time of year, I have been pretty hard pressed to EVER use more than 3/4 of an oz of lead on the vedder. not many guys carry 1 oz BB, I would assume you were using 2oz. either way its way more weight than actually needed.

BB can be done with or without a float...ever seen a guys float lieing on its side going down river...he's BB'ing. Ive seen guys with so much line under their float, the float is actually out of the water! Some people just try and hide their intentions under a float!

If you snag up alot, another good sign you are fishing TOO deep...in the rocks...right were the bottom bouncers are (you get the idea)! And indeed in that scenario bouncing betties may save you a lot of gear

I am not going to guess how or where you hooked that fish, wether it was flossed or bit...I would need to see you fish before I could even make a good guess. All I am saying is that I see a lot of the signs of a flosser!

cagey

why is it ok to floss on the fraser but not your sacred vedder? all those fish are going to some river that is sacred to someone; a river where no one flosses.
there is nothing wrong with hooking a fish in the mouth. who can tell whether it bit? snagging fish on purpose is not right but..... don't get carried away just because a guy bottom bounces. lots of fish bite that way too.
alex015

there is a reason why people on the fraser use long leaders and bb's... take a look at the water at the fraser, then take a look at the water at the vedder at this time of year. you do the math
gooey

Exactly. The fraser and vedder are different river...socs and reds are different fish.

#1 BB'ing the vedders ultimately leads to a lot of snags as it does in the cap too. I snorkel the cap regularly and I cant tell you how many dead steelhead smolts and some salmon, I see on loose hooks snagged on the bottom.

#2 reds springs,coho, steelies, etc...they all bite. They can be hooked legally. Socs in the fraser do not bite with any level of consistency. The only efficient way to harvest the socs on the fraser is to floss them.

3# on a low year 4 million freakin socs go up the fraser...I dont know the exact numbers on the vedder but I would be surprised if there are more than 8-10,000 reds on the vedder. There is no comparison in the gross number of fish.

#4 when fishing the fraser one fish could have come from 100 different home rivers. the impact on one particular river fish stocks by an intensive sport fishery of socs on the fraser is LOW.

For those reasons listed above I have no issues taking a bunch of socs each season and why I know the local rivers shouldnt be floss fished!
propaint

Ok now I fish alot for sockeye on both baker river and lake washington in both systems i troll with spoons and the sockeye hit those hows it different in the fraser or the harrison?....bb is a very easy/effective way of fishing and takes just as much "skill" as reeling in a spoon and as long as the fish is hooked in the mouth there's no harm in keeping it and if its not hooked in the mouth just throw it back no harm done...and it does seem that alot of the threads anymore have this same agruement in it, so y don't we just drop it. btw nice fish!

Tight lines
alex015

i dont think the "no harm done" mentality is helping anything when a fish is foul hooked, especially if soemone is doing it on a regular basis because it puts the fish through a lot of unecessary shock and punishment. i highly doubt "no harm is done" when you are pulling in a fish in teh fraser thats hooked on the back on the tail.
dynk float

I guess fly fishers should put there gear away as well. Put a sink tip on and that's another form of flossing. Were do you stop.
FishFreak

I cant beleieve this all i did was post a pic of the spring i caught on the vedder for everyone else too look at and all this crap starts im just gonna stop posting my pictures on here, too much bullshit starting from a simple picture
olie'

Fish Freak, dont quit man. There are more people on hear that want to see each others fishing pictures/experiances than there are losers who just make dramma. Forget those guys, I would suggest that you ignore those type of posts that target conflict. Keep chattn and posting with the others.
Like i said before, chill out people.

gooey

Talk about drama....chill out FF, I think we all have a pretty good dialog going on now!

Back to the question at the top of the page....the fraser on a good day has 18+ inches of visibility and its a BIG river that runs hard...I think those two factors make it uncondusive to trolling. Trolling socs in the ocean was a BLAST, way better than flossing and the limit is four (way rather troll em)... another strong pull to flossing is that its from shore, no boat needed, and coincedentally I dont have a boat anymore.

Back to the whole "it doesnt hurt em" comment, I agree with alex. Those fish may have to swim another 600 km and with the river being SOOOOO warm, catch and release of these fish is not cool in my books. That mentality could allow someone to sit the and floss 50 socs a day after they have their limit...get your 2 and GO HOME! thats the only way.

Now ya see FF we are all sharing ideas and engaging in a dialog. this is a great thing for the fishery as hopefully we can all help to raise the standards on the river!

gooey

Come on bladerunner 2 / wintersteel / cagey etal....I have give my justification for having different standards for 2 river so I am looking to hear your thoughts.

Do people only jump in the ring when they think they can win the fight...thats kinda like picking on the skinny runt isnt it???
blaydRnr ll

that's why i'm not getting into it...because you talk like a little runt.
blaydRnr ll

i changed my mind. its not so much your opinions that gets me miffed, as much as the way , you convey them. you yourself lack accountability.

you say you do alot of river fishing. yet you suspect ff of bb, using 2 oz betties, on the vedder. how many bounces do you think he'll get with that much lead?

also, you say bb on the vedder is bad, but bb on the fraser is ok because catching fish there is harder.

you ever hear of the old cliche "its either you do, or you don't"... if you choose to sit on the fence and not pick a side, then you need to put your self righteousness away and take it for what it is.

gooey

First off, lets get the terminology right: BB is not nessecarily flossing and flossing can be done under a float or while BB, with long leaders or short. My concern lies soley with people FLOSSING the local rivers (excluding the fraser). When I say flossing I am talking about the hooking of fishing by lining them instead of hooking on a bite.

I fear that many people dont even know a flossed fish has been flossed and many other dont care.

There is no place on the vedder at any time of the year that requires a 2oz BB...NO WHERE. The appearance of BB on the vedder certainly spikes with soc season...and so does the length of leader used, etc.

I am not one who is terribly convinced that FF cares for all the rules 100% of the time, so I guess I have taken a relatively judgemental stance. When you see the beak show the vedder is turning into its easy to get your back up.

What ever gave you the idea I havent picked a side?? Bottom line is life is usually grey, not black or white...flossing the fraser for the reason I stated above seems justifiable where as I cant apply those same reasons on the vedder etc. (by the way, you actually didnt respond to any of the points I made...try again)

Socs dont bite (thats a long way from "fishing there is harder"), so I floss them to harvest them. I dont approach the other rivers with the same harvest mentality.

PS - I have spent a lot of time volunteering on at the seymour hatchery and I have helped with the cap brood stock program too...I dont just talk the talk...I walk it too!
winter steel

Gooey, really..... it is not to difficult to justify a particular stance a person may have on an issue. After all we have a court system and live in democratic world that allows people to "justify" why they committed a certain offense or do what ever it is they do. My original point with your issue is you can not have that double standard of seperating resources and terms of sportfishing. Am I going to have to bring my lawyer each time I go to a river in order to interpret what deems proper sportfishing etiquette? As I mentioned earlier it is an individual choice to fish the way you do and because of the success rate of bb on the Fraser it will happen on other rivers. You have to live with it, not me, as I choose not to participate in that fishery. Seperating the resources in your little "polyanna" world is not realistic. Having volunteered for a hacthery program does not give one the right to feel they are holier than thou! Lastly, I have a life and do not spend my waking moments on the internet, so I am terribly sorry if I did not respond in the allotted time. Hey, Gooey, you never did answer my question about those springs, were they flossed? Did you realese them if they were? After all you can "catch" them using spoons, flies, spin n glos, roe, back trolling, bar fishing, etc...... but it was easier to floss them, right?
gooey

You know the answer to that, they were "incedental catches" during sockeye fest on the fraser...I have a bar rod, those springs were hooked before we got our socs so I really didnt mind.

So a couple of points: "can't separate resources in your Polyanna world"...what a dum comment...life is grey not back and white and Fisheries does it everywhere. Hatchery vs Wild coho for most river, native food vs native commercail, native comercial vs non native commercial, doing 110-120km on the highway (100km limit)...do I need to list more??? I find only narrow minded people think in black and white or can only identify with the extremes.

And I am not try to engage you in a fight, just a good conversation. So drop the attitude (polyanna comment).

Me stating that I volunteer at a hatchery is just an example of me giving back the the resource I love so much. A resource I take from as well. Other people do garbage drives at the rivers...what ever. Point is we try to put back into the system...thats all. I am not holy roller, I just wanted people to appreciate I not some shit head who's full of hot air...my words are backed by action.

By the way, you actually didnt counter any of the 4 points I made. Your ideas can shaped how others think...and that can change there actions. Instead of trying to be a smart ass, voice your opinion to the 4 points I made. If you make a good point, I may be forced to re-evaluate my position!

And finally for the record, you dont have to have flossing spill over onto other rivers just because its happening on the fraser!
winter steel

I appreciate the effort youmake tokeep the resource going. If you live in a grey world then it is not very well defined. In regards to dumb comments, "throwing punches when you think you can only win the fight|" The people I know that throw punches in a fight they can not when are very sore") In regards to your four points #1 You know as well I do that the majority of mortalities come form fish that have been hooked deep or released improperly, not from snags. #2 Your absolutely right, springs do bite and can be hooked legally so why floss them? Some of the streams like the Nehatletch and Nicola once had great runs of reds, unfortunately those runs are dwindilling and you can nolonger take reds on either. Finally points 3 and 4, I really don't care about your need to toke sockeye from Fraser. I have told you before, that is an individual choice. However,your argument about taking your share of Sockeye can be made for any tax paying,license buying person who wants to take their share of hatchery fish on the Vedder,Chehalis, Stave,Alouette,Capilano,Seymour and every other river that has fish thanks to a hatchery program. Whats the difference if it is flossed, netted, hand grabbed or however else you wish to do to catch it if it is a hacthery fish. It is meant to be killed right? Again,an individual choice to fish the way you do. You are wrong about the Fraser and flossing, it does promote the technique as an effective means of fishing. The # of people using it on rivers has increased over the past years,ask the old timers. Knowing those springs bite next time you floss one you'll let it go right? It's an individual choice Gooey;
winter steel

Also, about polyanna, you have made some comments in your past posts that involves a little dungalitis,no attitutde intended,but please if you can dish it out you should be able to take it Gooey!
blaydRnr ll

are you kidding me? "bb is not necessarily flossing"...where's your head at? bb is a technique specifically aimed to floss fish...why the hell do you think its so synonymous with the sockeye fishery?...YOU'RE RIGHT, YOU SHOULD GET THE TERMINOLOGY RIGHT.

also, when i was referring to using 2 oz betties on the vedder, i was being sarcastic. 2 oz's of any weight anywhere on that river , would ensure a 'snag' at almost every cast. so why would you think that anyone would use it?....that was my point.

finally, you think i always post without reading previous threads? get real...but just so that you don't think that i've over-looked your points, here's my reply to them...

1. bb will create 'snags' in any river. including the fraser.

2. you say you bb in the fraser to harvest socs. they don't bite, so you floss them there. great. but in the process of doing so, you end up flossing springs. they
bite. so where are your morals now? do you let them go?
after all, you're not targeting them and the way you've caught them is unfair. right? it doesn't matter if its legal. and you can't be sure that they've actual bitten your hook. Now i EMPHASIZE, not targeting them because you're bb (flossing to be specific).

3&4. i also forgot. by bb on the fraser, there's a chance you might even snag on to a sturgeon... i've seen it happen. it doesn't matter about the numbers of fish in any water system. its about intent and what's legal. you're right about the grey area, so why argue about mute points and accuse ff of doing anything less than what falls within the acceptable guidelines of the 'fish police'.


on a positive note...its great that you volunteer at the local hatcheries. i don't doubt, that you 'walk the walk'.
its the 'talk' that you need to work on.


bug pumper

Hey this is getting good. Blade I like you points, but I do believe that BB with short leaders, not Fraser style, can produce fish that bite in rivers like the Vedder. But only 50% of the time. The rest is snagges and flossing. I personally don't like it, why not just put on a float? Right. Thats what I think Gooey meant.
blaydRnr ll

using a short leader under a float, constitutes the technique of 'drift' fishing. even when using a betty.
however, if the weight is sufficient to sink the float and the weight bounces off the bottom, that obviously constitutes the technique of bottom bouncing.

therefore, its not always the tackle that defines bb's , as much as the way they're used.

"its not the gun that kills, its the person who pulls the trigger"

i don't like it either when i see people bb on the vedder, but if they're within the law, who would i be to say otherwise? however...kid you not...i always keep a close eye on them (just in case).
gooey

During the winter, alyson pools is too deep to fish with a float as are other runs. While I have only done it a handful of times, I have taken the float off and BB the vedder for steelies. With a 2 foot leader and a bug or a pink worm. BUt the INTENT is to illicit a strike. I diferentiate BB and FLOSSING in that flossing is a direct attempt to line the fish. If you are free spooling down the river then the sweeping motion needed to floss doesnt happen and then you can safely BB without a good chance of flossing.

Springs will bite on the fraser and if I get one before my socs then I count my lucky stars. Hopefully once the soc season pics up, I can get my 2 socs and then bar fish a spring...but until that happens springs will continue to be incedental catches for me.
blaydRnr ll

...."by the way lets not call the fraser fishery BOTTOM BOUNCING, it is much more acurate to call it FLOSSING as that is exactly how the fish is hooked"...

sound familiar? i quoted you from the thread 'chrome springs today near hope'. you ragged on bug bumper and accused him of flossing for springs. yet when it came to you, you justified it and refered to it as incidental catch, where you enticed the springs to bite because you said "springs on the fraser bite". you even go as far as saying, you do it at the canyon during winter, to 'illicit' a strike from steelies. but, i've also quoted you saying that..."there's no room anywhere on the vedder for bottom bouncing" (you actually said flossing), but then again, you say alot of things that sound the same.

the point is, when you say things where you contradict yourself, it makes you look foolish and on top of that, it makes you lose credibility.
gooey

Bug Pumper is a buddy of mine, he and I will probably be fishing together saturday and monday....I was simply heckling him on his "chrome springs" thread...just stirring up crap! He and I continually contradict each other to see what kind of responses it gets.

I have bottom bounced the vedder for steelies...I think maybe 4 times in the last 10 years or so. Can I say never, not really....but basically BB'ing the vedder is not a format I pursue and I certainly dont target fish by flossing.

I saw a couple of americans BB pink worms in the tailout of on the way and they did alright (hooked fish that werent flossed). I cant critise those guys or even think they should change their format.

If you cant tell the difference between a guy who is trying to floss and a guy who isnt then I can understand why you're so confused when I differentiate between BB'ing and Flossing...I am sorry, but I dont think I can make it any simpler for you!

Like I said I have a prob with the guys who target fish (non fraser) by flossing...these are the guys fishing deep, often BB'ing, have long leaders, sweep their drift as opposed to free spooling, may or may not have a float, etc.

cagey

i don't disagree with anyone who says it is wrong to try to snag fish. fisheries should make a law of no more than 4 ft leaders. that would change the odds.
i have a real problem with those saying it is ok to floss on the fraser. all those fish go some place. the nicola springs are in danger. how many fish destined for there get flossed. 50 fish is important to the nicola . there are lots of other very delicate runs. same thing with sockeye. you don't know which river your fish was going to. supposedly fisheries orchestrates everything but i'd rather see the "sport" put back in it. i ventured down last weekend to try for sockeye. i saw why they call it armed combat!!! everyone is so intent to get a fish they forget about everyone else, and in a lot of cases about the law. reefing on your rod every 10 seconds is nothing more than an attempt to snag.
what i would like most of all would be to see everyone on this site talking about fishing and promoting "sport fishing" not meat fishing. less "name calling, etc on this site would be nice too.
winter steel

Couldn't agree with you more Cagey! At times I think many of us forget that it is a sport and a valued one at that, not for only its meat, but the enjoyment of being out in nature and enjoying everything it has to offer. Tight Lines
quantumleap

Flossing(snagging in the mouth) is for people who don't know how to fish. If your good enough at fishing there is always a way. I have seen finicky steelhead ignore every traditional bait in the book, then move 2 feet sideways out of their resting place to chase down a 99cent compac lure. There is always a way if your good enough.
fnfloy

Man you guys are stupid flossing is not illegal. And about 95% of anglers floss.
Steelheader

now why did u have to go and open this god foresaken thread back up
fnfloy

Because all these people are wrong who are saying flossing is illegal. because ITS NOT........
winter steel

Your absolutley right fnfloy, flossing is not illegal, howver it is a practice done by those who are not capable of enticing a fish to strike. What flossing really does is seperate those that are in it for the sport and those that wish to take home table decor.
winter steel

Oh ya, because a person has an opinion on a particular topic does not make that person stupid. In fact, your "statistical info" of 95% is well off, (unless your specifically talking about the fraser). On other systems flossing may occur, but I assure you it is not 95%.......and so your comment is ah...... how would you put it......STUPID!
Beak007

Did you guys get banned from FWR too?
cagey

lets get back to talking sport fishing. no more talk about flossing or selling turn tables or calling people names. there are some people who want to enjoy this site as an avenue to learn things, whether it be where the fish are biting or simply how to fish. it seems to me those that think they know the most about "issues" want to know how to tie a hook! for once and for all lets make this into the site it could be. for a start let's bury this "issue".
it all started because fishfreak was kind enough to show us all a decent fish he caught. that is what this site is supposed to be about. now let's talk fishing!
bug pumper

it a a bummer though, winter steel is right. Today on the Vedder I saw a lot of flossers. Fortunatly they got outfished by the drifters. I landed 5 fish, bonked one hatchery doe coho.

Fishing forum > silver spring on the vedder


 





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