Fishing forum > Fraser bottom bouncing

Author Topic: Fraser bottom bouncing
ck

hey dogs, conflicting reports, can one bounce a two ounce at laidlaw, cheam, or herrling or is the current too strong?
gooey

I have fished herrling for sockeye one several occasions and I was hucking 2-3oz betties but sockeye season happens well after the freshet has moved through the system. The river is much lower then than it would be now so my guess is the 2oz is too little for herrling.

If you or any one else reading this post is interested, I have a mold to cast 1,2,3, and 4 oz betties so if you need anything I can get em to you cheaper than the tackle shop. If you're interested, send me an emial at bctc@shaw.ca with size and numbers needed and I'll give you price.
Anonymous

I cant belive that you sportfisherman call bottom bounceing a sport why don t you call it snaging or flossing
do you teach your children that this is ok. I wonder how many fish are hooked in the mouth mmmm. none!!!!!!!!
I saw last year how some of you fish, it was a pink salmon year, I saw people taking over their limit of fish and this type of fish is not what most fisherman are seeking etc sockeye spings. etc. We wonder why there is a shortege of salmon stocks, in my opion we should look know further than each other and start taking care of our loved sport.
The Yak

you make some good points but sign in before you post.. pretty cheap word when you're anon.
smitty_33

why don't you grow some nuts and make posts with an actual name like the rest of us? you're just a computer geek lurker with too much time on your hands.
olie'

YA!
gooey

Thats funny, 3 "signed in" posts but not one of you guys had the "nutz" to post your own opinions on the issue presented by the anon. posting.

I am sure you guys have seen my opinions around this subject on other postings, but here it is again:
1) I agree with the anon posting: flossing is not sporting at all
2) I think that fish which will bite/take the hook SHOULD NOT BE FLOSSED (ie springs, coho, steelhead, etc)
3) the sockey fishery is a meat fishery, hence I don't mind flossing/snagging these fish
4) flossing is hitting epidemic levels outside of sockey season (vedder, chehalis, Capilano) and I think fishermen in general need to be far more responsible in their use of flossing.

Remember that ANYONE can floss a sockeye so when a new fisher partakes in the sockeye fishery, we as seasoned anglers are TEACHING them that flossing catches fish! They then take it to the Vedder, Cap, Chehalis etc where it is totally out of place.
deer hunter

Come on people,the only way to get sockeye is to floss them or buy them of the indians(Their so called FOOD FISHERY) and I don't buy fish so....
deer hunter

p.s. gooey is right it gets bad when it carries over to the vedder etc...
dwg

Gooey, I totally agree with your comments. It's nice to see that many people like you are are responsible fisherman.

I also was initiated to salmon fishing (flossing) by friends who would take me out to sockeye fishing. They proceeded to fish (floss) the same way on the Vedder and the Squamish.

Enjoying both flyfishing and floatfishing, I showed them that coho and pinks are indeed very easy to catch on the flyrod. And Chum, Chinooks and coho are way more fun to catch floatfishing.

My 2 cents...

gooey

Ya, there is nothing like watching a float go down and setting the hook or watching a coho case a spinner or jig accross a pool! It beats flossing anyday.

Not to mention that you really can't play a fish out during sockey season (with all the other lies in the water and fishermen around).

Besides the meat theres not much else in sockeye flossing for me.
The Yak

ok... first off GOOEY, i dont fish rivers so thats the reason I didnt give one. But if you need to hear one here it is... I dont think flossing for any fish is right or should be acceptable. I dont care if sockeye is a meat fishery or not

There... happy...? now ill go back to my stillwaters
The Yak

Anonymous

I fished above Aggasiz yesterday, 3 oz was the size to use.
Roeslob

Bottom bouncing should be banned as the fish do not bite, they are lined. I'm sick of these beeks that insist the fish is biting. Try bouncing with a bare hook and you'll HOOK just as many fish as you would with something on it.
salmon assasin

omg
its to early for this debate
Roeslob

Never to early buddy, theres bozos out there right now bottom snagging Chinook out of the Fraser. Guess these guys couldnt care less that some of the fish they're snagging are attempting to make it to their home stream with a handful of other fish!!
Bertoli

I don't think that anybody cares where the fish are going whether your bottom bouncing, bar fishing or using Dynamite. The ultimate goal still remains catching the fish. I dont approve of bottom bouncing for Springs when they are proven biters bar fishing. Lets just let people do what they want as long as its permitted, and bottom boucnig still is. If it doesnt hurt you dont worry about it. We all just need to chill a little bit. Bertoli
Anonymous

what about all the indian nets do you think they care that the fish are attempting to make it to their home
gooey

Frankly we can't worry about the Indians netting, different set of problems. Regardless of what the natives do, that isnt going to effect how DFO regulates the "SPORTS" fishery.

WHat we do WILL effect how the DFO regulates our fishery.

My point (that I tried to stress in other threads too) is that there have been rumors of DFO putting a leader restriction on the fraser. Do we really need to screw up the sockey fishery by flossing springs that bite!?!?

Roeslob

Sockeye FISHERY??? Its a snag fishery for gawds sake!!! If you THINK the Chinook are Biting, why dont you try using a float that isnt set up to bounce bottom??
Just my 2 cents
salmon assasin

my thoughts run parrelel to gooeys

P.S. thanks for saving me alot of typeing
Roeslob

POACHERS!!
bug pumper

Roe slob. You dork. We know the flossers aren't getting the fish to bite, and so do pretty well all the posters here. You're not stateing a mind bending new revelation. Every method of fishing prevents fish from making it home...DUH! Unless you release. It seems there's always some ethics sherrif that like to point at others, and then that same person in fall bonks a coho that he snagged in the fin cuz he thinks no one can see him. Whatever!
Roeslob

So basically Bug Pumper you're saying that I snag fish??? You dont even know me GOOF!! If you have a problem with me posting my views on bottom snagging, fine. But to accuse me of snagging coho in the fall, you're an idiot!!!
smitty_33

btw, i bottom bounce 2 oz at laidlaw during sockeye season and it's plenty.
Anonymous

flossing is legal so its oviously not poaching
gooey

Roeslob, I dont think that anyone thinks the sockeye fishery is a sport fishery, infact in my earlier post I used " " around the word "SPORT".

The sockeye fishery is a meet fishery and there is no debate on that. When there is enough sockeye to go around (ie support a full fishery) why shouldnt those fish get harvested. Often when the runs are in peak numbers, you get egg beds being dug up by the late fish. The commercial guys and the natives take far more than we do, so why shouldnt we harvest them too (unfortunately flossing is the only consistant method tho)?

PS I havent seen your nickname before, thank you for signing in and indeed, try to learn a little about the group here before you start preaching to the lot of us!

Roeslob

Dont care if you've not seen my name or not, BB is BS get used to it!! I guide and watching some other guides "praise the sockeye fishery" is a JOKE! As far as the natives taking all the fish, have you ever seen their net and whats in it??? I doubt it. Compared to a commercial net or a day watching people snag sockeye on any given bar, it is nothing. Simple minds for simple minds.
propaint

Ok don't bash a noob here but what is bottom bounceing?
bug pumper

yep, sounds like you have a simple mind alright. If you were smart enough to get my drift.. I was suggesting that you worry about your own ethics. Flossing isn't poaching, I enjoy the sockeye flossery. So suck it up cupcake. So you're a guide, whoopie doo, there's lots of shitty guides out there. You seem to be trying to tell us what a great and knowledgeable fisher you are, or that's how you come accross. You're entitled to your view, but I'll keep flossing sockeye while you're having your little fit.
bug pumper

pro paint, bottom bouncing is also known as lineing, flossing, and Americans call it drift fishing. ( even tho it doesn't really drift, go figure.) It involves casting out into the river with a wieght, some length of line past the wieght, and the hook. As the line flows down the river it finds its way into a fishes mouth and runs through the mouth till the hook gets stuck in the corner of the jaw. Not sporting yes, but effective. BP
gooey

Roeslob, your must be the BIG MAN on campus! Well, if your a guide and all, I guess all us weekend worriers should get down on our knees and thank you for your words of wisdom.

Get real jerk off! I think you will find not many people here support a floss fishery of the springs so get over yourself.

And if you are such a great guide, tell us how we can efficiently catch sockeye once they are past the QA?!?! (and even then you need a boat) My bet is you got NUTHEN to say on that one!

So tell me, as a guide have you ever take anyone out for sockeye, how did you fish them????. My bet is your own personal beliefs on flossing are far outweighed by the opportunity to make a buck! I think its that type of HYPOCRITCAL BS that bugpumper was referring to in his posting re the "ethics sherriffs"!

Look forward to hearing from you again wanker.

Roeslob

I dont guide for sockeye in the Fraser R, I dont beleive in that "fishery". During that period I'll guide for sturgeon and also bar fish for Chinook. Hope I didnt disappoint you with my answer.
bug pumper

No, you didn't disappoint. Well... next topic.
Bertoli

Hey whats your number and name of business. I wanted to get into some sockeye this year the "sporting" way, maybe you can pass along some wisdom as a guide and all. Bertoli
Roeslob

Fish the chuck
gooey

Just as I figured...so as a guide, your best advice to catch sockey is "fish the chuck". Well thats great for a person that A) has boat or B) has $200 or so to burn on a charter.

Maybe some of the guys on this board and I here should pool our resources and charter you one day...you could show us the ropes on ethical bar fishing (admittedly I know very little about it) and then we could go top up the cooler with some yummy sockeye!!!
Roeslob

If the Harrison is open for them you can floatfish dyed krill.
gooey

RE floating dyed krill....from shore or do you need a boat??

hey don't ya want some business anyhow? Seriously put a deal together for us...lets do some fishing!
Roeslob

You can fish that way from shore I am told. Send me your email and we'll set something up, on the house of course.
Roeslob

That last reply was from RS
Anonymous

Being new to the (sport) fishing scene,this topic has really caught my attention. I never knew bottem bouncing was considered a bad thing.Is using pencil led on the Vedder sorta simular? Or is it the lenght of your liter that is deemed Flawsing? All foul hooks are released by me.
fishbonker

I heard someone say at the beginning of this thread that the only way to get sockeye is to snag em or buy em.Thats simply not true Ive got my limit plenty of times on stripped flies which they aggressivley attack. Roeslob I agree with you 100percent but good luck getting through to anyone on this board.
deer hunter

Those stripped flies are flossing them,you just don't realize it;cause if the you say they bite the fly then they must be biting the wool to which we all know they don't.I fly fish sockeye as well with the guys from totem flyfishers and they all agree,sockeye just don't bite.
Roeslob

Thanks for the support Fishbonker and DeerHunter. I just have very strong issues with this type of "fishery" as it has and does carry over onto other rivers in a small but growing degree.
gooey

Roeslob, I couldnt agree with you more! 2 seasons back I was fishing the chehais with a 7w tied for a center pin and these beack had just come off the fraser and were flossing steelhead at the old log jam. I was site fishing steelies with roe sacks and bugs and as soon as I spotted one, the beeks started to extend their drift to try and floss the fish I located...absolute F*****G BEAKS.

It also makes me go insane to see bouncing betties being used under the vedder cross in that fast slot. I watch 6 fish get hooked in 45 minutes: 1 flossed in the mouth (and killed) all the others were in the back, belly, or tail and were release or snapped off because they couldnt control them. It was a sad thing to see.

I admittedly take what I can from the sockeye fishery. I usually stop once I have my 2 fish. Equally sickening are guys that brag about hooking 20++++ sockeye in a day...in a run of 4-12 million fish, I dont mind flossing a few out for myself but thats as far as I go.

Roeslob, if you got some better ways to access these fish, zip me an email...would love to hear about it: bctc@shaw.ca

thanks
Anonymous

Actually the sockeye were taken in clear water where they chased the fly right to our feet before they hit it.
blaydRnr

hey roe-ass, i don't think you should get off so easy. you preach about flossing and the sockeye fishery(which is legally a 'meat' fishery), yet you'll take any wannabe fisherman (ie. tourists) and hunt down sturgeon (which is an endangered and protected species), then you'll justify it by saying its catch and release. why????? because of nothing more than the good ol' mighty dollar. if your so friggin ethical and so ballsy to call people names... tell me what makes you so privelaged, that you have the special right to target these fish and expose them to potential harm?! while you look down at the rest of us. and just for the record, i don't believe in snagging fish in general, but as far as sockeye is concerned, i will try to floss them in the mouth and if i miss and snag them elsewhere, i will( and have done so), release them. i don't do this for the 'sport'. i do this for the grill. so if you want, call me names, but don't be a flamin' hypocrit.
Roeslob

Blade runner, ever caught a wild steelhead before?? Maybe I should be more specific, have you ever fished the Thompson for steels?
Sturgeon Rider

Fish with a float!! If i see guys flossing or running hooks through groups of any salmon. I'll Knock your fucking teeth out.Hope to see you at the river!!!
Bertoli

Shut the hell up Sturgeon Rider. I do hope to see you on the river. Ill be the guy flossing my Socks. Come try to knock my teeth out. Bertoli
Roeslob

Sturgeon Rider, it's a long walk home with a lung full of water. No need to get tuff behind a computer screen, remember, there's always someone tougher than you somewhere, besides, what are you trying to do, get booted off of EVERY site? Relax a bit, smoke a few beers
Sturgeon Rider

like i care if theres someone tougher. plain fact :People that floss are loser skids that are what is helping poor salmon returns. Why dont you get a couple of shopping carts and tie them together.And block the hole river.I have no respect for your fishing ethics.You are not even close to fisherman.I am ashamed you are even welcome at this website.
Sturgeon Rider

Oh ya!And sorry if i got pissy but i cant stand people delibertly flossing sockeye or any other fish for that matter.I understand if you snag on by accident.But come on ,some of you people sound like you do it for fun.There is no need.True fisherman dont floss.
deer hunter

You know almost every posting on this site is an argument.The site has become a sewing circle of miserable bitches;throwing veiled threats at each other now is to much!The sad thing is most of us are so called adults. Sturgeon Rider threats are not cool and nobodys going to share info with you if you are going to lose it like that.
Roeslob

Sturgeon, you need to relax a bit, I posted my same thoughts but in a more suttle fashion. Gently ease in, then release the bombs
Sturgeon Rider

Agreed!I only lose it for the sake of the fish.I try to keep the asshatery to myself but i lose it when i go out and there's 3 guys yankin fish after fish out laughing how easy it is to floss.Try fishing for sockeye with Pink and orange hootchies.They do bit!
gooey

Of coarse there are fish that will bite under ANY circumstance and others wont. Sockeye are in the 99% percentile that wont bite and as I stated on my last posting, I dont mind take 6-12 fish over the coarse of the season by flossing them.

After the scale bar I hit a local river with a ultra light center pin and (with roe or bugs) to go after a steelhead. I like to think of myself as a sportsman but that doesn't exclude me from taking part in a meat fishery to get some for the Bar-B-Que!

Let me ask roeslob and Sturgeon rider...do you guys own boats...I know the answer for roeslob, how bout u stergeon rider? Its easy to be critical of everyone when you can hop in your boat and find some isolated water to bar fish springs or troll for socks or fish sturgeon...you get the idea.

PS thanks for the emial sturgeon rider but I dont have a boat so your input is useless to me (apprecaite your efforts all the same)!

Sturgeon Rider

Yes.I do have access to the fraser via my brothers jet boat.I guess to me trolling sockeye is the only way.Although I do fish from shore often.I understand your point gooey.I never have caught a fish by flossing though.Salmon are supost to be hard to catch.Thats what i love about them.Thanks and if you want to go out some time gooey tell me and i'll email you again with the date and time too meet.
blaydRnr

so sturgeon's ass rider. now that we know 'you talk the talk', tell me, how many gillnetters and other commercial fishermen have you kicked the shit out of. because like i said before, flossing is a method used to catch sockeye, for meat, not for 'sport'. don't confuse the two. if your tolerance is so low, i recommend you sign up for another site-- maybe greenpeace, or "save the fart toads of botswanna" foundation. or maybe the girl guides of america. 'they make kick ass double-fudged cream cookies'.


roeslob. my background is mainly tidal (twenty plus years---since i was in grade school). its only the past three years that i've switched to non tidal. i have tried to catch the elusive tyee of rainbows, but have been unsuccessful. not only because of lack of experience, but also because of lack of opportunity and time. what are you getting at? .... better play nice or i mite send 'fart toad rider' after you.
blaydRnr

hey goomba. you're right, pink and orange hoothies do work on sockeyes. tell me, these guys you saw flossing (while you were catching the fish on these lures) where were they at the time? the middle of the georgia strait? the tidal estuary of the fraser? SOCKEYES STOP FEEDING ONCE THEY'VE ENTERRED F-R-E-S-H WATER. so if these guys were successful flossing these fish in the middle of the ocean, damn, even you have to agree, they deserve to keep them. then again, maybe they weren't the only ones flossing.
gooey

Roeslob, Sturgeon Rider, or anyone else who has a boat and feels charitable...ya I would love to get out and troll the socks...emial me anytime (bctc@shaw.ca).

As I recall, sockeye on the troll fight way better than a flossed fish, you don't have to worry about 20 other guys drifting down into your fish, and in tidal waters you can bonk 4 socks.

Who would pick flossing over trolling IF THEY HAD THE CHOICE!



Sturgeon Rider

Okay enough is enough.The people i see flossing aren't even useing lures.There useing oversized hooks with a few splitshots.Running them through spawners.I phone the department of fisheries & Oceans today.Flossing/foul hooking and snaging is Illegal.No matter if its a sockeye or any other salmon for that matter.So i guess i'm the only one thats caught a sockeye from shore while floatfishing.I caught 1 3 years ago at Harrison River with a skittle bug fly.My fishing buddies have also nailed them at scale bar and herrling island.The Department of fisheries told me that i should report anyone seen flossing unless they are natives obviously.
Sturgeon Rider

The department of fisheries #


Prov: 1-800-663-9453

federal: 1-604-666-3500

Check your Regulations people.Penalty for flossing includes;
Fine up to $100,000.00 and 1 year in Jail.
gooey

The DFO are full of S**T. The regs haven't changed in the last 4-5 years revolving around the current fraser river sockey fishery. I have been on the scale bar with undercover DFO floating around. ONe year they ticketed anything retained that was hooked behing the gill plate next year you were good to go anywhere from the edge of the mouth to an inch behind the maxila.

They are walking on very shaky ground by not having one set standard writen in stone (in the regs) and accordingly enforced! They have let the floss fishery grow to what it is now and I don't think they can put the brakes on it.

So sturgeon rider are you going to put the Enforcement number on a speed dial and buzz them every time you pass any bar on the Fraser.

Just a side thought, as you are traveling up and down the fraser, are you one of those guys that drivers 100km/h in the fast lane cause that the speed limit or do you do 110+?

Seems to me most of us speed and there is casual enforcemnt at best. Soc fishery is no different. I respect your right to do 100 but for god sakes get outta the fast lane cause not everyone has to do it the same as you!
bug pumper

sturgeon. I've caught sockeye in the vedder on a float and peach wool and it did bite, not flossed. But that was one in a million. I've seen guys catch sockeye on the flyrod on the vedder. Those guys insisted that they were biting but they were obviously flossed. (hook entered from the outside of the mouth.) If I can catch sockeye with a flyrod and they are really biting, I'd give up flossing for good. I'll give it a shot, they go, ballistic when they don't have to fight all that wieght. Really underrated as fighters.
blaydRnr

it's been proven by many experts (ie. marine biologists) that sockeye, once they've entered 100% fresh water, no longer feed. it is true, that from time to time, they will instinctively snap at small brite objects that pass in front of their line of site. however, for them to chase down prey at this stage of their migration, is highly doubtful.

i'm sure that someone from the dfo call line, informed you that flossing for sockeye is illegal. but they will also tell you that it is acceptable for you to catch them as long as you have a form of bait or lure at the end of your line. they are fully aware of the sockeye's migratory and feeding habits. they know what the experts know.

don't kid yourself, just because you're using a float and a baited barbless hook, doesn't mean that you're not flossing. it merely gives dfo reason to turn a blind eye. try fishing still water with the same set up and lets see how successful you are.

why are we even debating this? if dfo knows that sockeye in fresh water, no longer feed and 99.9% of them are no longer interested in chasing down prey. why don't they just close the fishery at this point, rather than trying to regulate it.

the next time you catch a sockeye in fresh water, open up it's stomach and check out it's contents. maybe then you'll see for yourself. if anything you might find remnants of prey taken from salt water or near it.
gooey

Blader runner, you're a num-nut. Of coarse the float tactic wont work in still water, the reason they do strike is that its an instinctive/reactionary hit from something passing them by (IN THE CURRENT!!). Have ya ever watch a pool of smolts and they hit rolling bebbles, twigs, etc. Same thing...so of coarse there would be an even smaller chance of getting a sock to bite under a float in dead water. Thats true for coho and springs to. You dont see many peole chucking roe into a pool and watch it bob around!

And I agree, they need to take one stance, either allow the floss fishery outright or shut it down. Leader restriction do litle as you can just as effectively floss with a 3 foot leader (look at all the beaks doing it on the vedder). Anyways, if thats the case I guess I will have to buy my winter supply of socs of an indian up there other wise I heading out with my bouncing betties on opening day!
Sturgeon Rider

The rules stipulate any fish not caught properly in the mouth must be released.You can not take any fish home to eat that has been snaged.I know that the flossing is out of control and believe me when i say , i wont be speed dialing these numbers but if i do come across some @$#%'s flossing mega i will do something about it.

Car liecence plates:
Boat Identification:
Either get a boat of dont fish for socks then.Buck the trend.Go out with a guide or someone experinced in proper sockeye fishing.Dont think cause everyone does it it's exceptable.I,ve fished for15years now and every year it gets worst and worst.I fish with a 65yr old man sometimes and he just can't believe how bad it has become.
Dynamite kid

Sockeye can be caught in the Fraser and rivers such as the Vedder without flossing.I have hooked socks float fishing (short floating) from the top end of Herrling island using small bits of pink-red wool .It took alot of work to get these fish to bite, but they will occasionally.Also I have hooked Sockeye in the Vedder canal using this same method ,we could actually see the fish attacking our wool.We were targeting springs and were quite suprised with the Sockeyes reaction.
I am also a guide on the Fraser and I will not guide people to floss for Springs .I will however guide people to floss for Sockeye ,we get our limit and then it's off Sturgeon fishing.I personally am against snagging fish ,but sockeye are very tough to catch with other methods and their huge numbers can allow a harvest while still having more than enough fish returning to spawn.In the event that their numbers are in jeapordy I would be the first to give up this fishery (gladly).In my opinion the Spring salmon do not return in large enough numbers to support a snag fishery ,therefore I stick to the methods that entice the fish to bite such as bar fishing and trolling.I would also like to point out that any fisherman can effectively snag using a float set-up and this has been going on since well before the Sockeye snag fishery ever began.You can witness this every year during any salmon run in the Vedder ,Long floaters who are dredging bottom and constantly making huge hooksets,to me this is worse than sockeye flossing as these runs are tiny compared to Fraser river Sockeye returns.
The first step to improving the situation is to let it be known by all new fisherman that Sockeye fishing on the Fraser is a snag, meat fishery and you get your 2 fish and move on (or 10 fish if you bring all the neighbors kids).It does not make you a hero to catch 20 fish a day,It makes you a clown who is jeapordizing the fishes chance to return to spawn.Lets not confuse Sockeye flossing with sport fishing ,this is the problem.I would rather see a family out flossing for their legal limit of sockeye than buying poached fish from some waste of skin.
Now if only the govt would return some of the copius amounts of tax money provided from this fishery back into the resource.
Dynamite kid

Sockeye can be caught in the Fraser and rivers such as the Vedder without flossing.I have hooked socks float fishing (short floating) from the top end of Herrling island using small bits of pink-red wool .It took alot of work to get these fish to bite, but they will occasionally.Also I have hooked Sockeye in the Vedder canal using this same method ,we could actually see the fish attacking our wool.We were targeting springs and were quite suprised with the Sockeyes reaction.
I am also a guide on the Fraser and I will not guide people to floss for Springs .I will however guide people to floss for Sockeye ,we get our limit and then it's off Sturgeon fishing.I personally am against snagging fish ,but sockeye are very tough to catch with other methods and their huge numbers can allow a harvest while still having more than enough fish returning to spawn.In the event that their numbers are in jeapordy I would be the first to give up this fishery (gladly).In my opinion the Spring salmon do not return in large enough numbers to support a snag fishery ,therefore I stick to the methods that entice the fish to bite such as bar fishing and trolling.I would also like to point out that any fisherman can effectively snag using a float set-up and this has been going on since well before the Sockeye snag fishery ever began.You can witness this every year during any salmon run in the Vedder ,Long floaters who are dredging bottom and constantly making huge hooksets,to me this is worse than sockeye flossing as these runs are tiny compared to Fraser river Sockeye returns.
The first step to improving the situation is to let it be known by all new fisherman that Sockeye fishing on the Fraser is a snag, meat fishery and you get your 2 fish and move on (or 10 fish if you bring all the neighbors kids).It does not make you a hero to catch 20 fish a day,It makes you a clown who is jeapordizing the fishes chance to return to spawn.Lets not confuse Sockeye flossing with sport fishing ,this is the problem.I would rather see a family out flossing for their legal limit of sockeye than buying poached fish from some waste of skin.
Now if only the govt would return some of the copius amounts of tax money provided from this fishery back into the resource.
Balloons

Attn. Roe Slob, have you ever played in the skeins game?
Balloons

Long story short. I was with Dynamite when tis phenomenon took place in the Ved Canal, we were shortfloating red and white wool to suspended Chinook when, in amazement, we hooked sockeye instead!!
Further on the bottom bouncing issue, I dont believe in it, the fish do not seem to readily pursue the offering, infact most of the fish are hooked from the outside in under close investigation.
Just my 2 cents
gooey

WOW I am impressed, it looks like after years of research and clinical field trials a couple memebers of this beloved board should be recieving their PHD's in sports fishing any day now.

And the finding are: sockeye sometimes do bite, legally you are only supposed to keep a fish that bites and is hooked in the mouth, and finally, flossed fish are hooked outside the mouth usually... absolutely earth shattering revelations indeed!

I will refer back to my post where I stated I don't mind taking 12 or so sockeye over the opening when 8-12 million are passing by anyways. Is it a sports fishery...we all know the answer is no. And yes I too would stop fishing if I thought the run was in jeopordy. There is more than enough fish to go around so why dont all you high and mighty people get off your high horses. If you dont want o fish that way then fine...I will, as will many others so get over it. DFO isnt concerned enough to actually enforce the regulations so why try to be a hero and push the point for them.

Dynamite had it right though, let the socs be flossed on strong years and curtail flossing under ANY other scenario (coho on the vedder, Fraser springs, etc.)
Balloons

I was just posting an opinion Chief on some of my experiences, didn't want to upset the apple cart. Have a nice day and enjoy your sockeye.
Balloons

Gooey, some posts back you were asking roeslob to take you out and try to show you some different ways of hooking sockeye fair and square. Now you're a smart ass with an attitude on someones experiences fishing for sockeye without flossing? What's up with that
fish fishburn

i'm a newb. last year a few of my friends and i bought all the gear to go bar fishing. sockeye was closed at the time so i figured the snaggers would stay home. they didn't. they were trying to snag springs... and were drifting there shit down over our bar rigs.

so my question is... if you don't have a boat where can you bar fish without the bottom bouncers getting in the way. they are everywhere and they are relentless.
gooey

my email is in the thread twice and no real communications about getting out on some ones boat. frankly I got enough friends that want to go out river fishing so I can't imagine those guys have any shorter a line up if friends that want to get out on their boats...I wasnt expecting an invite and nothing transpired of so unwards and upwards!

Sorry for the way my sarcasm came across. It seems this bedate has been going on for ever and I think that all the people here agree on some very simple points that you reiterated for about the 7th time on this thread alone.

Thanks for throwing your hat in the ring, it only ads to the energy in this ongoing debate!

Anonymous

wow tough guy there eh SR
what do you think that saying your gonna do something about it is gonna stopp bottom bouncing?
in my opinion bottom bouncing isnt a good method of fishing however its productive but if there a thousand guys out there doin it your not gonna beat all of them up so you may as well just go out there get your two socks and enjoy them....stop trying to be such a tough guy cause ill be out there bouncing peg this year so if you wanna come say something to me then do it not from your computer you fag
propaint

Ok last year was my first year fishing the fraser/vedder river, and 99.9% percent of the people(that I saw) were bottom bouncing or float fishing for the kings,coho,pinks,chums anything that swam there way, and I didn't see one person foul hook a fish...It my not have been right how they were fishing, but all the fish were hooked legally in the mouth and even then I only saw a few people keep the fish. Now correct me if i'm wrong but snagging(not saying its right) is were a fish is hooked some place other than the mouth right...and if people are cacthing these fish in the mouth(even if they were bottom boucing)and releasing them whats the harm. Now if i see someone cacth a fish somewhere besides the mouth and keep i won't hesitate to give em a peace of my mind but but if they through it back I don't really see a problem with it. I do not bottom bounce except for the occsional sockeye. I guess what i'm sayin is that all the people that i have seen bottom bouncing have been catching the fish in the mouth and for the most part releasing them.
propaint

Ok and anyone that make threats and doesn't sign it should just shut up.
Sturgeon Rider

hahahhah.Mr.anonymous!!You guys can do what ever you want.I follow the rules and gettem proper.Man if i get three a year i'm stoked.
bug pumper

blaydRnr, I don't think you said anything that anyone didn't already know. But scientists have'nt proven anything about sockeye feeding in freshwater. Its all theory only. The theory is the same for other salmon yet anyone who's fished for coho alot should have noticed that they do continue to eat when they're really fresh in from the ocean. Have'nt you ever caught a coho full of someone elses ghost shrimp, or with a stomach cramed full of chum roe its been gorging on? Of course if you're a fisheries biologist like my friend Young... you might have your own data.
bug pumper

sturgeon, if you only get three a year thats not too convincing. What do you do? Slow troll? I'm asking because I've been doing this more than twice as long as you and I've never had anyone show me a convincing way to get them to bite. Besides the occasional fluke.
bug pumper

Pro paint, you are right. But some people still call it snagging anyway, because technically they are just getting snagged in the mouth. The soks don't go up to the wool and bite it. Flossing is the most accurate term.
blaydRnr

bugpumper. its true, nothing is absolute. but your so-called 'theory 'is shared by many. i'm sure your friend young, won't dispute that. as far as other salmons, i don't think their feeding habits are even closely comparible with that of sockeyes. in fresh water, it is common to see anglers use natural bait, like roe to target coho, spring, and even chums. i don't recall ever seeing anyone use natural bait to target sockeye. the point is, the other salmons have been proven to feed, where the sockeyes have not.

i also pointed out, that from time to time, sockeyes will instinctively snap at any brite objects that falls directly into their line of site. but as far as excerting energy to chase them down, i highly doubt it.

that's why, when the topic of 'flossing' pops up, it's usually associated with sockeyes. also, if they're so attainable thru other methods, then why do the dfo allow long leaders to be used, knowing it increases their chances of being flossed.

gooey, thanx for the compliment. maybe next time, you'll be able to pick up on my sarcasm. i was merely stating an exaggerated point of view intended for those who believe that they've caught all their sockeyes thru 'the merit of bait' alone and never inadvertently flossed them.

Balloons

Maybe its time to close this thread before anyone loses an eye. I think its just about wore out now.
Anonymous

Gooey,I was first under the impression you agreed with my views on Sockeye snagging v.s. spring snagging and so on.Know I come to realize that you just post stuff to get a rise out of people.I, much like a Sockeye,do not take bait very often.I will say that myself and Duke have forgotten more about SPORT fishing than you will ever know.Your sarcasm was pathetic ,I would term it obnoxious drivel.
BENT RODS
gooey

people come on this board and state things that are absolutely obvious to us all and at the same time totally point less to the people who floss. It seems futile to debate something when poeple can't really justify their position. IE anti flossers say its not sporting, flossers say of course not...its a meat fishery etc. If the anti flossers want to change a flossers opinion on the issue they have to present an intellegent arguement that makes sense to the people who floss. Not one person has tried that approach hence the dug in nature of each and every person on this thread.

For the record, I just bought my first bar fishing rig! And to the Anon. post: I DO NOT SUPPORT FLOSSING FISH THAT BITE OR FLOSSING RUNS THAT ARE LIMITTED IN NUMBERS!

By the way Pro Paint your definition of snagging (a fish hooked somewhere other than the mouth) is incorrect.

A snagged fish can be snagged in the back, tial, even the mouth! Frankly a snagged fish is any fish that is hooked but didnt actually bite the presentation. Hence the sockeye fishery is a snag fishery. The flossing or lining places the hook close enought enough to the mouth to get away with. You can floss with a float or by bottom bouncing, it really doesnt matter. Any fish that didnt bite and is hooked was snagged...perhaps that why you say people throw back fish hooked in the mouth!
blaydRnr

gooey, i agree with you.

what it really comes down to, is ego. anglers not wanting to believe that fish cannot be caught other than by presentation of 'bait' or 'lure' alone. it makes them feel less skilled as fishermen and more stubborn towards others' point of view. that's why there's guys who talk of violence and include threats in their posts. to me, that's the real crime.

anyway, this topic has become stale. let's just all remember, we're all in the same boat and we all share common threads. keep the debate healthy, but also try to keep it safe. peace.
Sturgeon Rider

Hahah what a bunch of flossers?Free book called freshwater regulations:You cant keep them if not hooked in the mouth.Try wool for a change you long 10 ft leader flossmasters.
bug pumper

blaydRnr, ya I agree with you on the sockeye. I think this topic has worn out as well. We'll have it come up again in aug for sure.
fishing?

fishing?

Hey do you guys no how the natives fish on the capilano, and probobly other river to, they take a shopping cart tie two ropes to it and run up the sides of the river, how come nobody is talking about this any where, and i know this happens cause a few of my freinds happen to be native and they decided to show this to me, after which i decided to not be freinds with them and asked one of our good freinds the fisherie oficer to look into this and he in all his wisdom says " there native i cant do much about it"

(al little of topic but i thought it should be brought up)
splittail

This has got to be the BEST flossing thread I have ever read on the internet. You guys deserve metals for all the great info, cyberbullying and general banter. I must read this site more often.
marty

Yup the natives can do anything they want.
you would think they would want to conserve the salmon runs by letting more get up river to spawn so there would be plenty of fish each year.
But theese people have lived here for years so they must now better.
and let the flossing thing go guys as there seems to be those for and those against.

lets all stick to the rules as best we can and enjoy fishing
bug pumper

Hmmmm.. well I've been fishing the cap for quite a while and have'nt seen that one. I have seen them block the river with rocks and force all the coho into a small channel. They sit at the end of the channel in chairs and wait for a school of fish to come in. Then they rush the fish with nets and scoop them all out. Then there's the infamous huge treble hook snag em in the back technique. But apparently they can do what they want. BP
blaydRnr

sturgeon, you're nothin' but a retard. but since you're so trans-fixed on the rules and regulations, why don't you just go straight to the source and ask oceans and fisheries canada why there's such a heated debate over the sockeyes. while you're at it, ask them why the problems aren't as pronounced with the other species, like springs and coho.

the funny thing is, i use to catch sockeyes in saltwater and when i started fishing for them in fresh, i had the same attitude as you. here's a revelation . i always use yarn on a four foot leader with a float and pencil lead. i've never kept a fish that wasn't hooked in the mouth. so tell me, the fish that i did hook in the mouth, did i floss them?

yes i did. because i used the flow of the current to drift my line thru the vast number of fish and as they open and closed their mouths (to breathe), my hook drifted by until it hooked onto the one poor bastard, that should of 'exhaled' instead of 'inhaled'.

simple. not so complicated. not so unbelievable. and also, not so egotistical.

Sturgeon Rider

hahah!blaydRnr!!!!What a barney you are.Ya catchin them on a float is a clean catch if it is in the mouth.I did already phone the dfo.If you would have read above.Catching them while throwing hooks with splitshots through a spawning tight cannel is what im talking about.Float fishing is close but not flossing.You're just plain catching them right.Ya its stange how these socks bite.Some say they suck them up while other swear that they got a true bite.I've hooked then in the gill on the inside.It took it way down.So ya i can see what your saying but there is a difference in how you can interpet flossing.So chill out Blay.
Sturgeon Rider

blaydRnr

who's talking about ripping thru fish that can be seen. i'm referring to the upper fraser. casting 30 yards upstream drifting down without any jerking or stripping motion.

i've even fished isle 22 while fishery officers stood and watched. out of about 40 anglers (all using the same method and all catching fish), not one was cited for any infractions. so, if they felt we weren't in any violation of the law, who are you to think otherwise?

you're probably one of those guys who love to whine and preach about justice. yet in turn, won't hesitate to do 70 in a 50 km zone.
blaydRnr

my last comment was based on a different post. sturg. did you edit your latest thred? if so, i'll retract my last post. at least now, we're getting into specifics. maybe even somekind of compromise.
Sturgeon Rider

I hear ya
Anonymous

Fish by the reg's!! If its legal do it!! If its not donT!!!
Everthing beyond that is of personal choice of methods.
Enough of the Mother Theresa of the River routines.
Although i agree and follow many of the detractors of bottom bouncing, its a acceptable alternative till otherwise posted by fisheries.
bug pumper

104 responses and still counting. Sheesh.
Bertoli

...
bug pumper

Grumpy? Bertli.
blaydRnr

great debate. great points from all sides.

tight lines.
Bertoli

This conversation is what is making me grumpy. It doesnt matter what anybody here tells anybody else about flossing or about any of the ethics of fishing. If you already do it, then youll likely keep on doing it. I just think we should simply abide by the DFO's rules and maybe leave the flossing for the Sox only, because they really do not bite that readily. But thats a personal choice whether you floss for everything or not. Im not going to say anything to somebody flossing Springs when when Im bar fishing, until they hook my line. But so you know, Ill be bar rigging all summer.
bug pumper

Good enough. BP
paul

I get irked at someone telling me the only way you catch fish bottom bouncing is to snag or foul hook them.This is absolutely NOT TRUE! For one thing,if you are out there trying to foul hook a fish, you are fishing illegally!
99% of Sockeye and Chinooks I catch are hooked INSIDE the mouth. It's a matter of correct technique. So many nit-wits out there are using much too long a leader.How can you have any control of a 20 ft. leader? 12ft. is the max.8-10 ft. is best.The leader needs to be straight and downstream of the weight with no slack in your line so you can feel the take. That's right,I said take! Any fish foul hooked in B.C. must be immediately released unharmed in compliance with the regulations.If you do otherwise,shame on you.
gooey

OK OK, I have to come outta retirement on this one (I avoided the thread for a week now).

Paul WHAT HAVE YOU BEEN SMOKING?!?!? Do you really think that the sockeye fishery on the fraser is anything but a floss/snag fishery.

Are you trying to tell us the fish you hooked at the end of a 8-12 foot leader actually BIT, they werent flossed?????

Why not a 2 foot leader then? Why not a float? You need your line straight...yes, I agree with you on that...BUT IS SO YOU CAN RUN IT THRU THE FISHES MOUTH AND FLOSS THEM!!!!!

gooey

And how could I forget...I am dieing for you to tell us what your most effective presentation is or the most productive color yarn to use to get these socs to "take the hook".

Dont fool yourself for a second. 99.5% of the sockeye caught on the fraser are flossed (INCLUDING YOURS).

"99% of Sockeye and Chinooks I catch are hooked INSIDE the mouth". Uh excuse me...don't you mean close to the mouth!

And finally just to prove how little sense you actually make, you state "The leader needs to be straight and downstream of the weight..." The only way you could possibly have your hook directly down stream from the weight is if you were directly up upstream of the weight! which mean you would be fishing the water along the shore line or be standing in the middle of the fraser!

When you fling your hook and weight out into the midle of the river the whole thing sweeps down stream. The weight swings from your 12 oclock down to 3 oclock (90 degress) with 10 feet of line and a honking big hook trailing behind it like a comets tail!

I think I have said enough, but I feel I have too. The beaks that think socs bite down on a hook at the end of a 10 foot leader attached to a bouncing betty are the asses who bring it on to the smaller rivers like the vedder and capilano!
bug pumper

Yep, so true gooey. Congratulations Paul for probably the most unbelievably ignorant posting of the year. On second thought.. you MUST have been joking,I fell for it.There's no way you could be serious! Ha,ha good one, I'll bet you use shrimp oil on the wool too, really makes em hit that piece of wool hard! LOL
blaydRnr

"Every time I try to get out, 'they' always pull me back in!"...

poor paul. where the hell were you a hundred posts earlier? you've approached this thread from the 'ass-side' of the horse...and guess what buddy. you got kicked.

nothing wrong with giving an opinion, but shit, don't you think you should have read the previous postings. you could have saved yourself alot of pain and embarrassment.

20 ft. leader? straight and downstream of the weight??? ah, you talking 'bottom bouncing'? or 'trolling'?

so, back at ya!.... shame on who???
bug pumper

good one blayd!
paul

gooey,you control the hook, leader, and weight with proper rod action.It's quite easy to keep the leader straight and downstream of the weight. As for yarn colours,(are you ready?)three shades of green work best for sockeye,red/orange is best for springs.Corky size is critical,it's what determines the depth that your 'bait'is presented.As I stated before,if you are fishing with intention to deliberately snag/foul hook a fish,you are fishing illegally,and are subject to prosecution.
Anonymous

AUUUUGGGGHHHHHH!!!!!!!!
Yes I get the picture Bottom Bouncers are Evil
Bar Riggers are saints.
Enough already you elitist snobs. Fish your way.
Leave others alone that are not breaking rules.
Send annoying forums to fisheries about the regs, leave other law abiding fisherman alone.
I dont bounce except for soc's but it legal.
STOP BEING ANNOYING!!
Bertoli

shut up anonymous
propaint

Yah man if you can't sign it don't say it!
dwg

I love this thread!!
I have learned a lot. Would be cool if you guys organized a sockeye outing (as you did on the vedder last winter). A little bit of unnecessary flaming and lack of respect, but a good thread!!
-DWG
gooey

I'd be in, we could get a whole gang of us together and tie up half the scales bar or something like that!

And if the flossing debate is still unresolved then maybe we could arm wrestle each other to find out who the winners are (it does seem like egoes feed this arguement more than anything else)!
Anonymous

i think il go bottom bouncing for springs today
paul

Gooey,I just re-read your first two replys to my comments and would like to expand more on my reply.To have the leader straight and downstream from the weight(bouncing betty)you hold the rod tip high and keep the mainline tight(no slack)and 'hold' the weight 'back'to allow the hook to to be drawn downstream of the bouncing betty by the current.This way you can control and slow down the 'drift' and have the yarn/hook present itself directly in front of the fish. In general,sockeye are not interested in feeding during their return to spawn,but they will instinctively snap at an interesting presentation.So,if you can present your offering in a controlled way,you can fair-catch a sockeye by bottom bouncing.Of course,if you are just wildly tossing your line out there and then reefing on it every time you feel a tug,or as some have said, ripping the line through a school,snagging is certain.All you non-believers,just try what i've suggested,you will see.I hear the sockeye fishery may open early and close early this year,due to predicted very low water conditions by late summer.
Balloons

I heard that both sockeye and chinook have unbelievable eyesight and can chase down and SNAP at things that seem interesting, even if the river has only 8 inches of visibility. Unbelievable!!
gooey

I didnt know at first if you were just baiting us all with your postings, now it seems you are qite serious. I am sorry Paul, you are simply wrong. I really dont think you have pionered a technique different to the thousands of other flossers out there.

If you look at the flossers in the rivers they dont drift with a free spool, they hold back and sweep there gear across the run. this gets the hook trailing the weight which A) straightens the leader out (key for flossing) and B) give th hook some speed so it digs into what ever it hits.

You state that you hold back on the weight...thats what we all do. I gaurantee you your hook is trailing that bouncing betty and you too are indeed flossing them. If they are biting Paul, go down to a 2 foot leader then. With visibility in the fraser being 12+ inches, you certainly dont need an EXTRA NINE FEET of line between your "presentation" and the weight, especially seeing as you claim your hook is directly downstream from the weight too.

Face it pal, your a flosser, just like the rest of us.
bug pumper

I think we should meet up with Paul in Aug and settle it then. If a fish is flossed its obvious, the hook will have entered from the outside of the mouth.
paul

I didn't say chase down,D.M.,it gets in their face and they instinctively snap at it.The Springs will chase it down however,if your corky has blades on it.Visibility refers to a human perpsective,not a fish.
Balloons

Really Paul, well if visibility is not a problem for the fish, why not cast and retrieve spinners or spoons, or why not shortfloat with a short(12-15")leader?? At least you'll be getting the fish to actually bite.
gooey

Paul, I did some research on the fraser speed of water flow. At Herrling island (can't tel you pre/post freshet) the "near bed velocity" was 1.8 meters per second or roughly 6 feet a second. Assuming 12 inches of vis, that would give the fish 1/6th of a second to evaluate your presentation before its passes by...trust us your fish are flossed too, open the closet door and come on out...you have been outted buddy, no need to be ashamed of what you are (a flosser), most of us are flossers too, we wont be judgemental!
whilma

Well...Hmm...It seems every fishing web site has this debate. I guess there is nothing left to say.
bug pumper

yes Sally, every year the same topic. I like how gooey put it- "time to be outed" Yes Paul time to come out of the closet and face it, you're flossing. " Put on a couple shades of green for sockeye-hahahahahah.
silvadv

Hey guys
flossing on the Fraser for springs and sockeye does not deplete the resource. Commercial overfishing played a role in this some years ago but the biggest enemy of depleted stocks that we can control is habitat destruction such as poor forest management, old growth destruction and unethical farming practices going on in central interior where cow pasture goes to the edge of smaller tributaries. Forest renewal BC and 'Forest practices code' are a joke and a lie. But it is true that flossing on any other river but the Fraser is unethical. You cannot get a Spring to bite in 6" of visibility, but they are aggresive on clearer tributaries. Nuff said.

Fishing forum > Fraser bottom bouncing


 





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